Scarlet Letter: 1st Block

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Did Chillingworth ever actually trust Dimmesdale? When did he start suspecting him?
I wonder when he might have gotten an inckling of Dimmesdale's secret. . . . He didn't seem all too surprised when he found out.

What is most striking to me is the setting. From the first chapter there is this overwhelming sense of hypocrisy. The Puritans emigrated to America to set up a secular nation, but the book describes the people "amongst whom religion and law were almost identical." Then as the book progresses Hester and Pearl are persecuted for Hester's sin, all the while the townspeople deny that they have any sins. The judgment and harassment invades every level of society. Even the children act terribly toward Hester and Pearl. For example, when Hester and Pearl are going to the govenor's house and the children are about to throw mud at them. The children exclaim, "Behold, verily, there is the woman of the scarlet letter; and, of a truth, moreover, there is the likeness of the scarlet letter running along by her side! Come, therefore, and let us fling mud at them!" The children are too young to even understand why Hester is being punished, yet they pick up on their parents and other adults in their lives acting cruelly toward Hester and Pearl and they think they should act that way.

plot-
changes in relationship of characters-
although the characters didn't know that chillingworth was going to try and get revenge on the minister. I thought he was at first and I think if anyone thought that Dimmesdale was the father they would think that at first. But it does become much more obvious at as it went on. I wonder if Dimmesdale ever actually trusted Chillingworth, or maybe the other way around?

When Chillingworth came and looked at Dimmesdale when he was sleeping, what did he see? was there really an A there or something?

as the story goes on we see more into the real characters and what they are actually like. for instance we begin to understand more about Chillingworth.

As Bree said I feel that Pearl can see into people and see their true worth. Perhaps at the time this would be perceived as a devil child because this would be different and scary to them. she was able to see Chillingworth as a "black man"

I think it's kinda funny. the people in the circle are talking about guilt of people and trying to work it off and be pious. I find this really funny, because didn't they believe that they could not change wether they were saved or not, wasn't that predetermined. I suppose that means that Hester would be perceived as never having been innocent and her sinning just showed that she was always determined as as a sinner and she was never really saved.

Perception-
the people see things however they want. if they really wanted I'm sure they could see hester as a sort of reincarnation of the Virgin Mary, but they wanted to see her as a sinning woman. So they see that in her but they choose to ignore other people, like Dimmesdale even when he tries to tell them straight out that he is a horrible sinner.

-Plot
public and private gatherings attempt to include all characters
-Dimmesdale vs Chillingworth, Gus says that they are friends in the beginning and now Chillingworth is trying to get revenge against him.

-Ms Slocum comments on the relationship between Dimmesdale and Chillingworth being a patient and more passive aggressive nature

-Chillingworth finds the "something" on Dimmesdales chest and the character chillingworth becomes a more sinister character because that level of intrusion is very large.

-Hawthorne describes clear-cut symptoms of Dimmesdales mental illness.

-Pearl described as a devil child, but now more of an Angel personification is prominent due to the fact that she is immune to chillingworths "dark arts". Maggie wood, comments on her personification of the epitome of innocence.

-Hester whom is ostricized, seems to be more of a good person at the heart, as seen by her helping the poor and general good intentions.

-Plot progression,What will Dimmesdale do to relieve him of his great stress? Being a reverend who has commited a sin of great proportion.

-Contrast emerging between sheltered vs. real world. Because the puritans believe that their reverend would never commit any sin. And some like Chillingworth who are in the real world, revenge and attempting to reveal Dimmesdales sin.

-Puritain belief that women have more sin to begin with than men, might have to do with the reason for the persecution of Hester and looking the other way with the reverend.

-Even if reverend Dimmesdale commited sin and the Puritan people were told about it, they would probably deny it because of their commiement to their religion, they would not want to think that the person who is the most holy to them, is in fact in some cases less pure than they are themselves.

In the discussion, I agree with Gus about the relationship with Dimmesdale and Chillingworth. Seemingly, they appear close, but Dimmesdale is cautious about what he tells Chillingworth, and he doesn't trust Chillingworth at all.

I also really like Jake's point about the connection between Dimmesdale's mental and physical health. However, unlike Gus, I think that Dimmesdale is more crazy than depressed.

Moreover, I love Bree's point about Pearl actually being an angel-child. I completely agree with it. On the other hand, I also agree with Maggie's point that Pearl's innocence is also terrible because she is foolish and sly.

Gus also makes an excellent point that the Puritans are ignorant. Then Jack made a great point about the citizens being ignorant about Dimmesdale being the father of Pearl's father, and how sexism makes Hester a symbol to mock at. Jake's example of Adam and Eve, I found, was a perfect symbol for the Puritan beliefs.

Scarlet Letter Discussion Comments:
- I think that Pearl represents the Puritan belief of "predestination", the idea that god has already determined the fate of this young girl and that her mothers sinful actions have ultimately had an impact upon her fate.
- I think that the description of Governor Bellingham's unkept garden in a state of decay is symbolism that reflects his lack of ability to nurture the society he governs?
- I wonder why Mistress Hibbins is an acknowledged member of society when she openly practices witchcraft, and why the innocent character of Hester is not?
- I think it is interesting that Pearl's natural instinct leads her to Reverend Dimmesdale. I think this is proof that he is her father.

I think that the guilt the characters feel now will play a bigger role in the future because it will reveal to us what has happened in the past of the characters. After chapter 12, we start to see the guilt that Mister Dimmesdale feels for his family and the secret he holds.

I wonder if Chillingworth knew DImmesdale's secret before he found out. He didn't seem all too surprised. He seemed more victorious. I wonder how long he had an inckling, if he had one at all. Did he ever think of Dimmesdale as a real friend, or was it all fake? Chillingworth scares me a little.
He's just . . . .chilling. His name fits him well, I suppose. I wonder what he plans to do to Dimmesdale now that he knows his secret. He could kill him, but that would be too nice. He could keep him alive – that might be worse. Dimmesdale is driving himself crazy. He is going insane with guilt. His mental situation reminds me of Lady Macbeth towards the end of Macbeth. When paranoia takes hold, there’s no telling how people will act. I wonder if Dimmesdale will keep his personality . . . . . I guess we’ll have to see.
Everybody thinks Dimmesdale is the father. I think so too... but have we actually established that? It sure seems like it, and all the signs point towards him, but it could be some other guy. He could have some other sin...
Why didn't Hester leave Boston? I know the book gave us some reasons, but I think there's also another reason. I think Hester is clinging on to her dignity, and if she were to flee, she would be admitting the necessity to run. At least this way, she has control over it.

I thought it was really interesting when Hester,Pearl and Dimmesdale all held hands and a red "A" meteor brighten the sky. Also people assumed that it was a message sent from Governor Winthrop.

The A stands for adultery.

The whole fact that the A appears in the sky is interesting. It seems like up until this point the book is very historical. It is interesting to me that Hawthorne broke this trend and put something in the book that could never happen.

it seems to me that Hawthorne is trying to show that just one letter can be interpreted to so many different things
like the letter "a" in the meteor on pg.141, where Dimmesdale saw it as a bad sign, while another time in the book people say that "a" represents angel
i think you can see this in Pearl, which both meanings of the letter "a" i believe describe her. She has the pure innocence of a child, and is so different, but in a good way, so she could be an angel. But at the same time the "a" is the mark that Pearl essentially represents, which in her case is supposed to mean adultery.

I believe that perl and the scarlet letter are meant to be one in the same. I think that they are both symbols of Hester's adultery. Its almost like hawthorne is trying to show what Hester did was not completely evil. Just like perl isn't completely evil, the crime Hester committed isn't completely evil.

In terms of the A in the sky, I think that's very possible in terms of the time. The Puritan belief involves an over-interpretation of natural things, as Hawthorne states: "Nothing was more common, in those days, than to interpret all meteoric appearance,s and other natural phenomena, that occurred with less regularity than the rise and set of sun and moon, as so many revelations from a supernatural source" (140). So I think it makes total sense that Dimmesdale would see this A and think immediately of his sins, while others would see this A and interpret it as "angel" for the dead Governor Winthrop. It's part of how they see things, but it's also very interesting that two such different interpretations would come from it. I think that holds to the fact that one would interpret things as they related to him or herself.

The time frame of the book is very hard to follow. The only to follow it is to pay close attention to Perl's age. I wonder if Hawthorne did this for a purpose. Normally the timeline is based off the main character. Yet, I would say that Hester is the protagonist in this novel. Is Hawthorne trying to tell us something? Could this possibly show that Perl is more important then we know right now? It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

The A is interesting because the people perceived the A in the sky and on page 141 "...Not but the meteor A,--marked out in lines of dull red light." The interpret the A to stand for Angel. The community used it as an Angel and Dimmesdale thought it should be his own Scarlet LEtter. Shows how perception on everything makes a difference during that time and anybody can look at anything and make it whatever they want. The birds in the graveyard that Pearl put on her mom's Scarlet Letter, it shows the pain that the mother feels from the A. IT's like the S.L. represents her. "..Remarkable attribute of this garb..inevitably reminded the beholder of the token which Hester Prynne was doomed to wear upon her bosom" "...little Pearl paused to gather the prickly burrs from a tall burdock which grew beside the tomb..." Pearl is represented as the devil because of her mother's actions. ITs how they believe and to the community it shows a bad quality but its also a lesson to Hester. PEarl is the main thing that is keeping Hester "But here--if we suppose this interview betwixt Mistress Hibbins and Hester Prynne to be authentic...of a fallen mother to the offspring of her frailty." Why does society accept Pearl and not Hester? They have to see Hester's sin, PEarl, but they ignore the fact that Pearl might be a devil child. Why doesn't Hester tell Pearl who the father is. "...and taking his hand in the grasp of both her own, laid her cheek against it; a caress so tender, and withal so unobtrusive..." Pearl is very truthful and insightful but everyone ignores it because she is just a child. Hester can identify with other people who are carrying burdens on their heart. "But this very burden it was that gave him sympathies so intimate with the sinful brotherhood of mankind, so that his heart vibrated in unison with theirs, and received their pain into itself..." "And thus, while standing on the scaffold, in this vain show of expiation...as if the universe were gazing at a scarlet token on his naked breast...and there hand long been, the gnawing and poisonous tooth of bodily pain."

Does anyone else think its interesting that Hawthorne refers to Chillingworth as "the leech"?

(sorry about the spelling of Pearl....)

Roundtable on the Scarlet Letter:

-I agree with Kristy, in that the burs stand for something more than they seems. I think that the burs that Pearl throws at Hester's "scarlet letter" symbolize all the guilt and sin that comes along with wearing the letter, and they also stand for the way that people are trying to hurt her, and she is ashamed, because they "stick" with her.

-The meteor in the shape of the letter "A" is also a symbol for deeper meaning. For example, on page 140 when Hawthorne says, " So powerful was its radiance, that it thoroughly illuminated the dense medium of cloud betwixt the sky and earth . . . -- all were visible, but with a singularity of aspect that seemed to give another moral interpretation to the things of this world than they had ever borne before." I think that this quote shows how, since the meteor is in the form of a scarlet letter "A," the letter exposes her sins and everything about her, and even her guilt. It's almost as if he is saying that the scarlet letter has such power and such an influence that it can expose and make known to everyone the horrible things that Hester Prynne has committed.

-Another interesting thing that happened in The Scarlet Letter was when the meteor struck the sky, when Hester, Dimmesdale, and Pearl were holding hands, and it was in the shape and color of the "A" that was pinned to Hester's chest. As Aisha said before, this is interesting. For one reason, I don't think that this is a coincidence that it happened when they were all joined together, and also, that it was in the shape of a red letter "A." I think that this is kind of a hint at what happened between them all, and it shows how when they are joined together, the letter "A" is even a more prominent guilt between them.

page 141 "minister looking up to the zenith... red light, no such shape as his guilty imagination gave it." "did u reverends here ... great red letter in the sky the letter A ... we think it means angel." people thought that the A in the sky was for angle while dimmesdale thinks its up there for his sin. pearl putting burrs onto hesters scarlet letter, showing that it hurts hester like her scarlet letter has. Scarlet letter represents her. page 93, hawthorne talks about how hester has dressed pearl in an incredible gown of scarlet. was another form of the scarlet letter, but its "the scarlet letter with life." 121 "pearl paused to gather the prickly burrs from a tall burdock which grew beside the tomb. Taking a handful of these, she arranged them along the lines of the scarlet letter that decorated teh maternal bosom, to which the burrs, as their nature was, tenaciously adhered. Hester did not pluck them off." The people choose not to look at Dimmesdale as the father, but can't ignore the fact that Hester had a baby out of wedlock. Minister is known as pure. He denies pearl like how peter denied jesus. when hester and pearl go to the governors mansion it says, "Pearl, that wild and flightly little elf, stole softly towards him, and taking his hand in the grasp of both her own, laid her cheek against it; a caress so tender, and withal so unobtrusive, that her mother, who was looking on, asked herself..." Pearl might want Dimmesdale to tell people but pearl seems very protective of her mother. Dimmesdale tries to tell everyone his secret, and that he is not perfect. When everybody hears that they think he is even better because he "isn't afraid to confess". If they found out about Dimmesdale, it seems like they would blame Hester for seducing him. Karen said that Dimmesdale reminds her of Lady Macbeth. He will get so paranoid and so mentally sick that he will start being more sinful. Will Chillingworth tell people Dimmesdales secret or will he keep the secret himself?

There is such a huge difference between how people look at Hester on the scaffold and how people look at Dimmesdale on the scaffold. Just look at the descriptions. For Hester, on pg. 49, "'At the very least they should have put the brand of a hot iron on Hester Prynne's forehead'...'What do we talk of marks and brands, whether on the bodice of her gown, or the flesh of her forehead?'...'This woman has brought same upon us all, and ought to die..."
As for Dimmesdale, on pg. 138, "All people, in a word, would come stumbling over their thresholds, and turning up their amazed and horrorstricken visages around the scaffold." This has multiple reasons for the vast difference in reactions. One factor for these different reactions, which was mentioned yesterday, is sexism. Also, that people would want to turn away, not believing that Dimmesdale wouldn't do such a thing, that he is a poor soul that was tricked. But when it ccomes to Hester, people didn't act surprised, but more treated her like the town whore, and were quicker to judge her than Dimmesdale. Another reason is power, because if Dimmesdale falls, so does the utopian society. With Hester, if society shuts her out, everything will supposedly be fine.

Roundtable on the Scarlet Letter:

-I agree with Kristy, in that the burs stand for something more than they seems. I think that the burs that Pearl throws at Hester's "scarlet letter" symbolize all the guilt and sin that comes along with wearing the letter, and they also stand for the way that people are trying to hurt her, and she is ashamed, because they "stick" with her.

-The meteor in the shape of the letter "A" is also a symbol for deeper meaning. For example, on page 140 when Hawthorne says, " So powerful was its radiance, that it thoroughly illuminated the dense medium of cloud betwixt the sky and earth . . . -- all were visible, but with a singularity of aspect that seemed to give another moral interpretation to the things of this world than they had ever borne before." I think that this quote shows how, since the meteor is in the form of a scarlet letter "A," the letter exposes her sins and everything about her, and even her guilt. It's almost as if he is saying that the scarlet letter has such power and such an influence that it can expose and make known to everyone the horrible things that Hester Prynne has committed.

-Another interesting thing that happened in The Scarlet Letter was when the meteor struck the sky, when Hester, Dimmesdale, and Pearl were holding hands, and it was in the shape and color of the "A" that was pinned to Hester's chest. As Aisha said before, this is interesting. For one reason, I don't think that this is a coincidence that it happened when they were all joined together, and also, that it was in the shape of a red letter "A." I think that this is kind of a hint at what happened between them all, and it shows how when they are joined together, the letter "A" is even a more prominent guilt between them.

Something I find interesting is how Hawthorne stylistically keeps the reader involved in a more personal relationship to the story. While he acts as an omniscient narrator, he continuously refers to the leader, saying things like, “Under the appellation of Roger Chillingworth, the reader will remember, was hidden another name…” (Page 107) or “a kind of intimacy, as we have said, grew up between these two cultivated minds…” (Page 113). This gives the story a more story-like feel: like we’re being told a story by a friend, and we’re being led through it together.

On pg. 100-101, i find it interesting how Dimmesdale uses religion, which has essentially ostracized Hester, to defend her right to keeping Pearl. Dimmesdale's speech on this, saying "'Oh not so!-not so!'...fit to place them"
this whole speech defends her with religion, as well as himself. This is when i think he really starts to show how defensive of his secret he is

Conversation notes:
-The A now has many meanings, well I guess only two... but they are adultery and angel. Dimmesdale took the letter A personally but the old sexton described to Dimmesdale the letter A as standing for angel. pg 144 "But did your reverence hear of the portent that was seen last n ight?- a great red letter in the sky,- the letter A, which we interpret to stand for Angel. For, as our good governor Winthrop was made an angel this past night."
- I agree with the fact that it seems that the scarlet letter is taking over Hester's life. It is like she is being erased and being replaced by this letter. (quote from christina pg 97- backs this up). I actually don't think she is hiding behind it though, I think she is overwhelmed by it and that is who she is now, the scarlet letter, not the letter A.
-Pearl is the product of her mother's sins. I agree with Rovena and what she is trying to say. The child is not a devil, child can be made into "devil." Maybe she is a devil because she is a blessing to Hester if you look at it from the a towns-person's point of view.
- Yes, I don't understand why the lady who practices witchcraft is accepted in society either! (just found out- she was hung as a witch later) It is kind of like Dimmesdale- they don't want to acknowledge it. Even though both Dimmesdale and Sibbon's have kind of made the public aware of their sins, nobody wants to believe them.
-I think it is pretty evident that Dimmesdale is the father. It can be inferred from the reading. pg 141 "The moment that he did so, there came what seemed a tumultuous rush of new life, other life than his own, pouring like a torrent into his heart...the three formd an electric chain." - He is for sure the father.
- Pearl is intelligent but she is so innocent that her incite is ignored.
-Both Hester and Dimmesdale understand sin and are a-tuned to what is going on in other people.
-Sexism: would blame Dimmesdale's sin on Hester if they found out.
- I want to know what Chillingworth saw on Dimmesdale's chest! must be something scarlett
-Chillingworth wants revenge: going to do something to Dimmesdale, but what?
-science and religion: to wilson science is profane
- Leech: multiple meaning, literal: doctors use leeches to make patients better, chilingworth is acting as leech and sucking life slowly out of Dimmesdale

I think that Dimmesdale is going to lose his mind by the end of the book. I think that he wont be able to keep his secret to himself forever and at one point will tell the people of the town. I think that the town will take the news as Hesters fault. I think that this will push Dimmesdale off the edge because he wants to be punished for what he did wrong. This is shown when Hawthorne talks about Dimmesdale whipping himself. I also think that one of the only ways to get rid of guilt is to be punished.

Hester's charecter is developed during these chapters. She is a good person on the inside, because "Much of the time, which she might readily have applied to better efforts of her art, she employed in making coarse garments for the poor." It was interesting that the people of the town thought that the A standed for angel and not adultery. Pearl is also described more. She stirs things up, saying, "come away mother, or yonder old black man will catch you." I agree with the statement that why Hester is so ostracized is because Pearl is visual evidence of her sin. I agree that Pearl is always insightful, despite the fact that she is ignored most of the time. I disagree that Dimmesdale gives a good effort to tell the town about his sin because all he did was go up and stand on the scaffold while Hester and Pearl were there. It does seem like Dimmesdale is extremely paranoid about his sin. I think if he does not confess his sin soon, he will go insane. Its interesting how Hester got Dimmesdale to speak for her when she was about to lose Pearl. It is interesting Reverend Wilson does not allow "science" to be used to determine Pearls father.

One thing that I find interesting is the way in which Chillingworth treats Dimmsdale and how that relates to the type of medicine Chillingworth practices as a physician. The Paracelsian theory of medicine (we find out that Chillingworth practices Paracelsian doctoring in Chapter 4: The Interview, in which he gives Hester an Indian recipe which is then to be given to Pearl to calm her) says that one must cure by treating like with like. This is very different from the Galenist theory which says ailments are cured through the application of opposites. We see very clearly how much Chillingworth's theory of medicine applies to his dealings with Dimmsdale and how malicious he is towards him. Had Chillingworth practiced Galenist medicine, would he have tried to get Dimmsdale's confession out of him through openness and honest support, or would his need for vicious retribution have controlled his actions, regardless of his teachings?

Some symbolism I saw in the book with regards to the letter A was when Pearl was throwing flowers at the scarlet letter on Hester's bosom: "...Pearl amused herself with gathering handfuls of wild flowers, and flinging them, one by one, at her mother's bosom". This, to me, symbolizes all the beautiful liberties that were uprooted and taken away from Hester when she made that one unthoughtful choice in a moment of passion. Now, one by one, these liberties are presented before her by the very symbol of sin that took them away from her... yet, Hester loves Pearl with all her heart.

One thing that struck me as blatant sexism was when Hester was arguing whether or not she could keep her child. Hester prestents the argument that, "God gave me the child!", and, "He gave me her in requital of all things else, which he had taken from me. She is my happiness!- she is my torture, none the less! Pearl keeps me here in life! Pearl punishes me too! See ye not, she is the scarlet letter, only capable of being loved, and so endowed with a million-fold the power of retribution for my sin? Ye shall not take her! I will die first!". The minister responds, "My poor woman". Later on, Dimmsdale says to the old minister that, " This child of its father's guilt and its mother's shame hath come from the hand of God, to work in many ways upon her heart, who pleads so earnestly, and with such bitterness of spirit, the right to keep her"... this is the same argument. Why now is it only a legitimate one now that a man says it? Looking past this though, did Dimmsdale only do this because he felt bad for dooming her to such a disposition and only wanted to leave her with the one last things that gave her the slightest bit of happiness out of a perceived obligation to do so? Does Hawthorne have the same preconceived notions about women as is represented in the characters of this story?

Hawthorne seems to suggest that judgment and punishment are unique to humanity, and that the Puritans’ lack of compassion and lack of mercy was a choice but not necessarily the right one. From the very beginning, the new colony decided it was a necessity to “allot a portion of the virgin soil as a cemetery, and another portion as a site of a prison.” Hawthorne follows this symbolism throughout the book: a community preoccupied with the death of innocence and resulting punishment. Hawthorne poses the possibility of mercy and kindness only to the extent they lie beyond Puritan influence; he describes the wild roses growing outside the prison door “which might be imagined to offer their fragrance and fragile beauty to the prisoner as he went in, and to the condemned criminal as he came forth to his doom, in token that the deep heart of Nature could pity and be kind to him.” Hawthorne hints the Puritans are misguided hypocrites by suggesting it may not be possible for people to save themselves or appropriate for people to judge the hearts of one another when he writes ‘there is fair authority for believing the rose bush had sprung up under the footsteps of the sainted Anne Hutchinson’ (Hutchinson was imprisoned because she believed that man’s soul could not be saved through good deeds but only by God’s grace). It struck me that the letter A which was pinned over Hester’s heart (representing her adultery) prevented people from seeing her true heart. I believe it was symbolic of her sin but also symbolic of the fact that the community had blinded itself to Hester’s goodness by focusing all its attention on her sin and not seeing past it. By contrast, Dimmesdale covered his own heart with his hand. I believe the symbolism there was that he alone was responsible for preventing people from seeing the truth which was within himself. The fact that nobody saw past it except Chillingsdale who did so only with the worst of intentions was symbolic of the inherent hypocrisy of one person judging another. (“Who are thou, that meddlest in this matter? – that dares thrust himself between the sufferer and his God?”)

I don't think her strength was Dimmsdale's encouragement for revealing his sins. I think if he had been as strong as Hester, and seen the amount of strength that it took for Hester to bear her secret, hold her head high and still find further meaning in life, he would have never revealed himself. I agree completely with what Bree said, if he truly believed god would recompense his sins on judgment day, he is all the weaker for fessing up to his sins. It should have been, in my opinion, his punishment to bear his secret to death.

I thought this line passage was interesting: "Were I an atheist,-a man devoid of conscience,-a wretch with coarse and brutal instincts,-I might have found peace, long ere now. Nay, I never should have lost it! But as matters stand with my soul, whatever of good capacity there originally was in me, all of God's gifts that were choicest have become the ministers of spiritual torment. Hester, I am most miserable." I think this is good because it carries a lot of different parts. First, it shows Dimmesdale's inner struggle, because he feels like all the good has been drained out of him and is now used against him, to torture him. He's also referring to how difficult it is for him to be revered by the public when he himself has done such a terrible thing. But it's also interesting how he refers to atheists - of course this isn't a surprise considering the time, but still it's a really harsh description, and I think this also refers to Dimmesdale's incredibly strong conviction and belief in God and Christianity...and helps explain further his inner conflict. ?

i agree with what Karen said when Hester has become very strong throughout the book because in the forest she has gained enough courage to take off the scarlet letter from her chest and reveal her true self to Dimmesdale. When Dimmesdale showed the community that he sinned, i feel that he was able to free himself from the guilt he had held inside for so long. i think that when Dimmesdale met with Hester in the forest, he saw that Hester had overcome the power of the scarlet letter which showed him that he was capable of doing the same and releasing his guilt. although Hester was able to overcome the burden of the scarlet letter, i feel that Pearl still has the control over her mother. in the forest, as Hester calls Pearl back to tell her that they will be traveling back to Europe with Dimmesdale, Pearl does not recognize her mother without the scarlet letter upon her bosom. Pearl has demanded that she will not go near Hester unless she puts the letter back on.

dimmesdale felt like he needed to tell people because he had a thing to help people. Feels free after confessing. After 7 years dimmesdale finally confesses and the people might feel betrayed because they almost worshipped him. knowing that he confessed his sin he could die in peace. when Hester talks to chillingworth they are on a beach, and when she talks to Dimmesdale in the forest. It seems like since the people are not in society, they can talk in private and they can do whatever they want i guess. Dimmesdale is selfish because he usually refuses to notice hester and continue to be a hypocrite. When Dimmesdale kisses Pearl, pearl goes home and wipes the kiss off. It shows that Pearl knows that he is selfish and this kiss doesn't actually mean anything.

-Hester becomes very strong in these middle chapters
-Would it have been better if dimmesdale never told the people he was a sinner?
-No, He would have never gotten better if he had not confessed
-Yes, he should not have burdened his community so much, because now they know that the man that they look up to is a sinner.

-Dimmesdale feels as though his soul has been ruined. He knows that god is damning him to hell.
-Pearl seems excited about the idea of going away with Dimmesdale and her Mother.
-After he confessed his sin he could die knowing that he had confessed.
-The people somehow still respect Dimmesdale and mostly blame Hester.
-All of the secretive discussions take place in a secluded area, forest, beach, point being that when people have the privacy they are much more willing to discuss their sins and secrets.
-Corrupting the human heart is worse than commiting an act against god.
-Shows how selfish he is when he says that god will not let them be together in heaven, and seems as though he wants nothing to do with her anymore.
-Pearl rubs the kiss from Dimmesdale off in the river, because she knows that he is not sincere.
-Hester never questions the ministers behavior as a sinner.
-Dimmesdale is very selfish, he expects Hester to reveal everything, even though his sin is far worse than hers.

Scarlet Letter Comments:
- I agree with what both Sarah D and Gus said that it was important for Dimmesdale to confess his sin in order to be free of his agony. I also think it shows that he is only human and makes mistakes like everyone else. This correlates to Puritan doctrine which states that everyone sins throughout their lifetime.
- I also think it is interesting that the sunlight seems to purposefully avoid Hester in the forest. I wonder if sunlight symbolizes truth, and whether this passage is suggesting Hester is trying to avoid conveying the truth to Dimmesdale?
- I agree with Karen's comment that Dimmesdale is just as accountable for Hester's pain as Hester is for his. I think that Hester's experience with the Scarlet Letter has developed her into a stronger character who is able to forgive, whilst Dimmesdale has not gained enough courage to forgive her.

conversation notes:
-Karen: Would it have been better if Dimmesdale had told the public he was a sinner? If he had not gotten it off his chest then he would be able to move. But, it is kind of selfish. He is putting all of this on the people after seven years, he deceived them. I agree, it is selfish. He was only doing this to ease his mind, nobody else's.
- Seem like he is trying to run away from his sins.
- DId he die because he gave up, or the relief of the sin? I think he was sick because of the sin because it was weighing on his mind. The minute he said it he collapsed probably because of relief- the fact that he has now been able to tell a sin he has kept for seven years.
- Notice where everything is happening- forest or someplace natural (I don't remember a beach) is the place where truth can come out because people cant tell lies in public. Forest- garden of Adam and Eve- where the confess their sins to each other with a twist.
-Forgives Hester: he should forgive her! He has not admit his sin to the public for seven years and now he is blaming Hester from withholding information from him. He is being a hypocrite!
- Pearl can see Dimmesdale's hypocritical acts. While she can't say why he does it, she knows he does. Rejects his kiss- knows it is fake. Hester is blind to Dimmesdale but Pearl is not.
- Her fault he was miserable; i dont believe that. If he had confessed originally then he would not have been with Chillingworth for seven years. She did not have to tell him who Chillingworth was, but she did it out of the goodness of her heart. He wanted to tell his sin but he kept it inside him selfishly.

Dimmesdale is growing very sick by this time in the book. I agree that it was important for Dimmesdale to tell the people of his sin before he passed away. He wouldnt want to die with the guilt still trapped inside of him. Once you confess your sin, the Puritans believe that you can be forgiven. Dimmesdale kept his secret for way to long, seven years, and it ate him up from the inside. "Am I mad? or am i given over utterly to the fiend? Did i make a contract with him in the forest, and sign it with my blood? And does he now summon me to its fulfilment by suggesting the performance of every wickedness which his most foul imagination can conceive." This shows how possessed Dimmesdale has become. I think it is interesting that Dimmesdale admits that Chillingsworth has done a worse wrong than him. Who is he to judge who has done worse. I agree that Dimmesdale is selfish when he says that they wont see eachother in heaven. He leaves Hester hanging when he dies. Dimmesdale needs to take more accountability for the mistakes they have both made. Hester should not have kept all the secrets that she did. I think that Dimmesdale was kind of a wimp for keeping the secret for seven years. I do believe that Chillingsworth is the most sick and twisted.

I think what Gus and Bree said was completely true. Hawthorne is, in my opinion, definitely relating the Garden of Eden to Hester and Dimmsdale's revealing of their secret. Though, is he saying that nature is pure and society is evil for forcing people to contain their secrets or is he saying that society is pure and nature tempts people into its seclusion and allow things to be kept secret when in truth they should be revealed (and otherwise would be revealed if their was no isolation)? Keeping in mind what Hawthorne knew and the values that his society preserved, does Hawthorne agree that Hester's secret is justified or is he saying that no secret is justifiable?

16-19 Kristy, Karen, Christina, Bree, Sarah

Plot

- Chillingworth plays a critical role in how Dimmesdale develops throughout the entire novel, especially these chapters.
- “The secret poison of his [Roger Chillingworth] malignity, infecting all the air about him- and his authorized interference, as a physician, with the minister’s spiritual and physical infirmities,-that these bad opportunities had been turned to a cruel purpose. By means of them, the sufferers conscious had been kept in an irritating state, the tendency of which was, not to here by wholesome pain, but to disorganize and corrupt his spiritual being. Its results, on earth, could hardly fail to be insanity, here after, that eternal alienation from the Good and True, of which madness is perhaps the earthly type.”

Character

- All the characters undergo great change especially in these chapters.
- Pearl is very wise. This can be seen when he refuses to acknowledge Dimmesdale until he acknowledges her publicly.
- As readers, we witness how Hester becomes a beacon of strength. Her struggle and humiliation allowed her to access to a world she otherwise would have been denied. She gained empathy and compassion for other’s struggles.
- “The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not read. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, -stern and wild ones, - and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.”
- As Hester gains moral fortitude, we see Dimmesdale begin to lose his desire to live. We clearly see the connection between how his mental health has greatly affected his physical health. Mental and physical health are not separate entities, but two intertwined, dependent parts of a person.
- “’I must die here! There is not the strength or courage left me to venture into the wide, strange, difficult world, alone!’ It was the last expression of the despondency of a broken sprit. He lacked energy to grasp the better fortune that seemed within his reach.”

Setting

- The forest could be seen as the Garden of Eden. The tree that Hester and Dimmesdale are by could represent the tree of sin that tempted Eve into damning Adam along with herself.
- “They sat down again, side by side, and hand clasped in hand, on the mossy trunk of the fallen tree . . . The boughs were tossing heavily above their heads; while one solemn old tree groaned dolefully to another, as if telling the sad story of the pair that sat beneath, or constrained to forebode evil to come.”

Symbolism

- Hester cannot touch the light because she is a sinner while Pearl is pure and innocent so the light does not run away from her.
- “’Mother,’ said little Pearl. ‘The sunshine does not love you. It runs away, and hides itself, because it is afraid of something on your bosom.’”

I think that Dimmesdale needed to tell the public that he was a sinner. This was the only way to cure the burden that he was facing. If he didn't tell them this would have eaten him for the rest of his life. In response to this being selfish. I really don't think that this would influence his town that much. If he would tell the village chances are the villagers would overlook it or rationalize it because this is what they did in the past whenever he tried to tell the villagers something. The people of the town seem to not be able to realize that their leaders can sin. The villagers would blame Hester for Pearls birth. I think that Dimmesdale would have to leave and go back to europe if he wanted to ever feel better about himself. He would constantly be reminded of the fact that he sinned and would not be able to heal himself unless he was lived in a completely new environment. I think that Dimmesdale died because his guilt wore him out so much and after he confessed he realized that he would never really be able to fully recover from this. In my mind, after realizing this he just gave up and decided that it was his time to die. The fact that everything important happens in private is quite an interesting parallel to modern society. This issue become prominent in many situations in modern society. It is very easy to act like another person when your are with a group of people. In general I think that it would have been interesting if this book was told from the point of another person. Someone in the town on the outside. As much as you get in the mindset of the the main characters, I think that this can get distracting and it would have been interesting for Hawthorne to get outside of this and tell the story from a third party.

Chapters 14 & 15:

The beach and the forest both represent freedom of thought. I noticed that during the book, everything significant in terms of secrets coming out happened in nature. This could possibly compare to the story of Adam and Eve, when they confess they took the apple of temptation in the forest, they were ripped out of heaven. The only character that somewhat seems to be an exception to this is Dimmesdale. In the forest, he is still hot and cold with their relationship. He expects her to reveal everything, while he still can keep secrets. Also, in chapter 15, when the book talks about Pearl playing by the seaside, it shows her finally being herself, and revealing the overall innocence of children.
In chapter 14, Hester and Chillingworth have a major argument, on pgs 152-153, saying, “It was debated whether or no, with safety to the common weal, yonder scarlet letter might be taken off your bosom. On my life Hester, I made my entreaty to the worship magistrate that it might be done forthwith!’…‘Were I worthy to be quit of it, it would fall away of its own nature, or be transformed into something that should speak a different purport.’ ” The relationship between Hester and Chillingworth changes also, with Hester finally confirming her hatred for him, saying on pg. 159, “ ‘Be it sin or no,’ said Hester Prynne, bitterly, as she still gazed after him, ‘I hate the man!’”

Yes, Dimmesdale is questioning. Goes back to the puritan beliefs of certainty and doubt.

During these chapters, it mainly showcases the change of relationship between Dimmesdale and Chillingworth being finalized in a sense. Because throughout the book one would have to think that Dimmesdale would eventually catch on to Chillingworth's scheme for vengeance, and he finally does. It shows the split between the 2 characters on pg. 201, " 'Yea, to another world'...I need it not'. "

There is an interesting parallel to Hester's initial wondering if she had promised her soul to the devil in the beginning. She asks Chillingworth, "Art thou like the Black Man that haunts the forest round about us? Hast thou enticed me into a bond that will prove the ruin of my soul?" Chillingworth then responds, "Not thy soul . . . no, not thine." This gives the reader a sense of foreboding that Chillingworth is the Black Man and he goes after someone else's soul. As the story continues we see that Chillingworth goes after Dimmesdale's soul. Then Dimmesdale cries out, "Did I make a contract with him in the forest, and sign it with my blood?"

There is an interesting parallel to Hester's initial wondering if she had promised her soul to the devil in the beginning. She asks Chillingworth, "Art thou like the Black Man that haunts the forest round about us? Hast thou enticed me into a bond that will prove the ruin of my soul?" Chillingworth then responds, "Not thy soul . . . no, not thine." This gives the reader a sense of foreboding that Chillingworth is the Black Man and he goes after someone else's soul. As the story continues we see that Chillingworth goes after Dimmesdale's soul. Then Dimmesdale cries out, "Did I make a contract with him in the forest, and sign it with my blood?"

Chillingworth was in fact was taken over by vengeance, this is why he died so quickly after Dimmesdale died, because after his only purpose in life died, he had no other reason to live. It shows how weak Chillingworth was in a sense because he was so willing to cling on to an event that happened so long ago, and make that event take over his life, even though he admitted in the beginning of the book that it was indeed partially his fault.
Also, i don't understand why Hawthorne did drop Pearl essentially off the face of the earth, after she became such an important character. I wish that the book would have elaborated what happened to Pearl after she left. But i agree that maybe she did leave Hester because Hester removed the Scarlet Letter, so Pearl didn't feel the same connection that she had with Hester anymore.

Dimmesdale is infected because he is not confessing. He has kept this sin to himself for 7 years, and it is causing him to do these sinful acts. It seems like his mind is in a whirl and that he cant think straight. So it seems, to these people, that he would be infected with the temptations of Satan.

The guilt and the sin is what was keeping Dimmesdale alive. It reminds me of the Odyssey, when Odysseus comes back to Ithaca, he enters the city dressed as an old man, and he sees his old hunting dog, that has been forgotten and discarded, and is resting on the dung pile. He recognizes his old master and is able to then die in peace. When a creature is able to forget their sin and guilt, it is a feeling where the creature is able to die in peace, and this is what i think happened to Dimmesdale.

In chapter 14, when Chillingworth is telling Hester to take off the scarlet letter, I think that it shows that she is really brave when she says no, and keeps it on, out of bravery. Chillingworth says to Hester, "It was debated whether or no, with safety to the common weal, yonder scarlet letter might be taken off your bosom. On my life, Hester, I made my entreaty to the worshipful migistrate that it might be done forwith!" Then, Hester basically says that she is not yet worthy enough to take it off. If she were to become pure and free of sin, it would fall of on its own. Chillingworth then says that it "shows bravely on your bosom!" Hester has continuously grown braver throughout the novel, through experience and also in her mind. In the beginning of the Scarlet Letter, Hester is shown as more of a weak woman; sort of the typical female of the time. But, by the end, Hester has grown much more independent, and almost defensive towards other people. Since she is the one who has actually had to wear the letter on her chest, she is the one who has experienced all the shame and scorn coming from other people. This has made Hester all the stronger, and she shows it by the end.
Also, when they are in the forest, everyone seems to let out their true feelings. The forest and nature symbolizes how society keeps everything hidden, yet when they are in nature, everything seems to slip away, and true emotions and honesty are shown. This is the idea of nature v. society; nature goes back to how we first were, and everything was out in the open, yet in society (and once we had the concept of society), things are hidden from others, and secrets are kept. This can often complicate things in life, as shown in this novel.

I agree with Jake that Dimmesdale almost seems possessed. I don’t think he is strong or confident. Dimmesdale runs into Mistress Hibbins, he says he’s not the same man, he “uttered blasphemous suggestions”, and he drank poison from the devil. All these signs show he has changed and gives an image of infection. He knows what is haunting him but he is not strong enough to pull himself out of his sickness. I really want to get into his mind and see how much strength he truly has because it seems as though he is incredibly weak compared to Hester, who had to bear the same sin he did but in public. Although Dimmesdale confessed his sins, the devil will always be “attached” to him, even in death. Hester, even though she is left with the misery of Dimmesdale’s death, may have been relieved of such a weak and infected man. Pearl’s character at the end of the book is interesting because it falls away and doesn’t hold as much of an importance. After Hester takes off her scarlet letter, I think Pearl doesn’t have the same attachment to her mother, because she always knew her mother as a bearer of the A. Once her mother and father died, she can finally moved on to a happy ending and she wasn't always a symbol or 'result' of Hester's sin, but an own individual.

Blog Entry about Chapters 20-22

I disagree with what Austin said. I think that Dimmesdale is really courageous. He had to hold his secret for seven years. A secret that physically and mentally tortured him. He also had to be brave for the community. "The minister was glad to have reached this shelter, without first betraying himself to the world by any of those strange and wicked eccentricities to which he had been continually impelled while passing through the street." A weak person would have given up and committed the sins he wanted to, but he knows not to because he has to keep the communities good opinion about himself. Isn't a group of people more important than a single person?

Dimmesdale also rewrote his whole sermon for his community! It was amazing and powerful, and it inspired everyone. He truly cares about his town which is why he had to keep the secret! "Then, flinging the already written pages of the Election Sermon into the fire, he forthwith began another, which he wroth with such an impulsive flow of thought and emotion, that he fancied himself inspired; and only wondered that Heaven should fit to transmit the grand and solemn music of its oravles through so foul and organ-pipe as he."

I really like the point about "the leech" losing it's blood. Hawthore used amazing symbolism here!

Like Jake, I'm very interested in what happens to Pearl. It's almost like she dropped off the face of the earth. I really liked Maggie's point about Pearl growing up with the Scarlet Letter, and that's all she knows. For example, she didn't even recognize Hester without the scarlet letter on her bosom! I also agree with Ms. Slocum's point that they are always together, and it's odd that in the end, they aren't. I know children have to grow up, but it's an odd feeling to know that Pearl did.

Chapter 21-22: New England Holiday, The Procession
Maggie Freier, Jack Sloan, Maggie Wood, Vanick Ng, Rovena Mehta

Plot: Inauguration day, gathering to hear Dimmesdale’s sermon, Shipmaster tells master Chillingworth is coming, Mistress Hibbins foreshadows the death of Dimmesdale (Page 216), Puritan manner of celebration

Character: Hester and Pearl going to Market Place (Hester wearing haggard clothing, Pearl dressed in gaiety), Pearl is flitting around and speaking to people, Dimmesdale has a new found energy and determination obviously inspired (Page 214), whilst Hester feels more alone and separated from him. “During all this time, Hester stood, statue-like, at the foot of the scaffold. If the minister’s voice had not kept her there, there would nevertheless have been an inevitable magnetism in that spot, whence she dated the first hour of her life of ignominy” (Page 218).

Setting: Market Place on Inauguration day

Point of View: Hawthorne takes several pages to describe the Puritan way of celebration (depressing) “the Puritans compressed whatever mirth and public joy they deemed allowable to human infirmity; thereby so far dispelling the customary cloud, that, for the space of a single holiday, they appeared scarcely more grave than most other communities at a period of general affliction” (206).

Symbolism:
Page 118 – describing Dimmesdale’s speech, and the sadness and foreshadowing in his undertone

Theme: Hypocrisy-the Puritans do not judge the sailors by the same standards they judge the actual inhabitants. (Page 208)

Style, Tone, Irony: Mariner scrutinizes Pearl, but the old people don’t care about the sailors.

fix to last blog:
She possibly removed the scarlet letter. She did in fact return with it

The imagery that Hawthorne used to describe sin and its effects on the body in both Chapters 20 and 21 is disease. I think that this is why Dimmesdale dies by the end of the novel. The "poison" had blackened his heart and no earthly medicine would be able to cure it, he simply lost his will to live any longer. Then near the end of chapter 21 Dimmesdale felt as though his soul is damned to hell. He begins to doubt God's intentions for society, he compares the tale of the constant struggle of never knowing who is saved and who is damned to music that he wonders if Heaven would even bother to play.

" ...and only wondered that Heaven should see fit to transmit the grand and solem music of its oracles though so foul an organ-pipe as he,"

This questioning of the Puritan faith shows us how far the priest had fallen by the end of the novel.

The change in the relationship between Chillingworth is interesting and I don't think that it was really aknowledged, at least not out loud.

After talking to Hester, Dimmesdale has trouble not sinning. He seems like by agreeing to leave with Hester he was agreeing to continue to sin. He has chosen to try to run away from his troubles. When he chose to do that, what he didn't realize was that all lot of what he is trying to run away from is inside himself, and god neither of which he can run away from.

It was mentioned by Maggie that no Chillingworth didn't have an option but to follow the couple and continue carying out his revenge. I think that this is in away true about all th characters in the book who sinned. once they had sinned they couldn't stop of find away to run away from it. If they tried to get away from it and seek happiness as Dimmesdale and Hester tried to do they would find that once they had done something so bad they could not get away. In the end this just lead To Dimmesdale's death. I think this can also be seen in what happens to Hester. She tries to LEave with Pearl and be happy. Pearl is able to do this and be pure, but Hester cannot stay away from New England and her sin. In the end she returns to her old ignomony.

"Children have always a sympathy in the agitation of those connected with them" At first Pearl only feels bad for her mother, but not for herself. After the death of Dimmesdale I think she is able to feel for herself.

Chapter 20- Minister in a maze

Plot- Dimmesdale Starts to realize how overcome he has become with guilt. The title of the chapter plays on the fact that he’s stuck in a mental maze of confusion and hes in amaze of what he’s become. He feels like he is born again and goes running out of the forest as if possessed by a demon. Dimmesdale no longer needs Chillingworth to be his physician. “But, touching your medicine, kind Sir, in my present frame of body, In need it not.”
Character- There is a major change in character in this chapter. Dimmesdale changes from being a sad sick man to being very energetic. This happens to him in the forest. “I am not the man for whom you take me! I left him yonder in the forest” 178
Setting- The setting is in a forest, after he leaves the forest he goes to the town.
Point of View-“I am not the man for whom you take me...” page 195 Dimmesdale is changing from the person he used to be
Symbolism- “Did I make a contract with him in the forest and sign it with my blood” His feelings are a symbol of the devils book. This plays of the fact that he was possessed in the forest. The fact that nothing important happens in society, shows that society constricts the truth from people.
Theme- You cant keep secrets locked up. If you do this they will eat you up and spit you out. This is shown by the damage done to Dimmesdale. There is also dark imagery prominent in this chapter.
Style Tone and Irony- The tone seemed to be very foreboding and had lots of dark imagery.

2nd Comment

I find the character of Pearl fascinating. She is a walking enigma; simultaneously representing her mother's greatest sin and her greatest joy. However, instead of being seen as person she is just seen as a symbol. So it is interesting to see how she no longer recognizes her mother when her mother removes the symbol. Maggie brought up the idea that while ducks imprint on the first thing they see (usually their mother), Pearl imprinted on the scarlet letter. When Hester removes the scarlet letter Pearl doesn't recognize her. Hester declares, "Children will not abide any, the sightest change in the accustomed aspect of things daily before their eyes. Pearl misses something which she has always seen me wear." When Pearl finally accepts Dimmesdale as her father she gains her identity. No longer is she a breathing symbol of sin. She becomes a person. When she kisses her father it is a "pledge that she would grow up amid human joy and sorrow, nor forever do battle with the world, but be a woman in it."

This brings up a theme that Hawthorne repeatedly discusses throughout the novel. Only once people experience true grief or struggles can they be sympathetic. It is through these trying situations that a person becomes who they are. Instead of remaining vapid or ignorant.