Q2 - Lesson #26 - Clashing Views on the Economy

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Hopefully some of the economic thinking we did yesterday will pay off for you somewhere along the line. We'll try to do a little more of that as the opportunities arise. Today, we'll look at the comparative economic systems a bit more closely.

Extra Credit option - World History films - If you are interested, you can get 10 points of extra credit for watching a film from this list (or an appropriate suggestion that I approve) and answering several questions. Note this is also a "page" on the blog listed over to the right side. I'd like all these posted to the blog entry for the extra credit films by the end of the day on Friday, January 13th.

Debating Economic Systems - If you have strong feelings about one of more of the economic systems we have discussed, here's your chance to share them. To make things more interesting, you're going to be ASSIGNED at random to a particular side. You'll receive a slip with a statement on it. You and the others with the same slips will have ten minutes of preparation time and then three minutes to present "your" side. After that, the rest of us can weigh in with our comments. Here are the six "sides" you might receive. (Page 737 is a good starting place for most of you.)

Before we hear each pair of arguments, we'll make sure we've got the basic ideas of each of these down.

Capitalism
Capitalism is the most effective economic system.
Capitalism is a flawed economic system.

Socialism
Socialism is the most effective economic system.
Socialism is a flawed economic system

Marxism (Communism)
Marxism is the ideal economic system.
Marxism is a flawed economic system.


WWED? - "What Would the Economist Do?"
Here's where history meets current events.

You're going to select one of these economists:
  • Adam Smith
  • David Ricardo
  • Thomas Malthus
  • Charles Fourier
  • Karl Mark
Now, bring that person to the present. You're going to have "them" write a blog comment that you will post to this lesson. All comments should be posted before the start of class time on Friday. Have your economist comment upon/ analyze/ make recommendations for one of the current economic issues facing either the United States or the world. Obviously, what you write should be consistent with what your economist might say about the issue were they alive today.

Figure a minimum of one good paragraph. Be sure it is clear both which economist you are writing as and what the issue is that they are writing about. (Of course, be sure I also know who is really posting the blog comment so that you can get credit.)

By the way, I debated whether or not to use the WWED phrasing since WWJD ("What would Jesus do?") was originally a term used by Christian groups. My thought is that it has become enough of a pop culture expression ("What would ____ do?") that there is no offense here. Doing a little research (cough, Wikipedia), I discovered there's a term for that: snowclone. That's a cliche that "can be used in an entirely open array of different variants by lazy ... writers." Hey, that's me.


HOMEWORK for tomorrow - Wednesday, December 14th

Please read Chapter 26, Section 4, "Nineteenth-Century Progress" (pp. 762 - 767) for tomorrow. The quiz is fill-in-the-blank.

We will be holding our 1889 Paris World Exposition (or "Fair" if you prefer) tomorrow. You'll each have a short presentation ready for that.

Your WWED? blog comment is due to be posted before the start of class Friday.

Your Cartoons: Industrialization and Imperialism assignments are due on Friday, January 6th. Instructions for that are found back on Lesson #25.

26 Comments

Thomas Malthus (Charlotte Colantti)
Modern America, compared to Industrial Britain has even less possibility for ‘natural’ population control, meaning in sense, that no longer do epidemics, famine etc. dispose of excess population. It is then obvious why the population continues to grow to unprecedented numbers. This excess population only contributes to the lower class and to the unemployment rate. Perhaps then, to create a more stable economic system, it would be in the productive interest of the country to take measures against the propagation of a superabundant population; let then country discern those methods that would serve the country best, and refute foolish toleration for a disabling economic situation.

Rostam Alizadeh (Adam Smith)

I see the world of today, and with it a whole host of issues. Man is not free here. I see the government based public schools, the public health care, and the general move towards socialism here, and it sickens me. The day of opportunities for man to earn an honest dollar has passed. Man need not count on others to provide him with the very things he works so hard to achieve. This is not conducive to a healthy economic market. We need to become more self supporting as far as wealth goes, and we need to rebuild our country on the foundation of hard work, sacrifice, and freedom.

Max Van Dyke (Adam Smith)
Today there is a lab experiment going on in the US testing two economic systems. Socialism, and Capitalism. Two states, California and Texas are the "lab rats" for this test. Both taking a different system and hoping for certain results. Let's analyze what has happened as far as results.
First let’s look at the basic argument of taxes. My type of Capitalism is based off of lower taxes to help stimulate a free market economy and allow people to invest, save and purchase with more of their money. Socialism on the other hand believes that each person has an obligation to pay taxes. They typically favor increases in tax rates as a means of giving more money to the government to spend to stimulate the economy. They believe that government spending is the best way to help the economy. So which has proved to be the most effective? Now let’s take the tax rates in both states and see the result of each.
Texas has no state incomes tax. Yet despite no state income tax and a budget of just 229 billion annually, Texas enjoys a nice eleven billion dollar surplus to kick off 2010. Texas also had the highest increase of employment in November with 47,900 jobs added. Along with that Texas also has an unemployment rate of 8.1% which is 1.5% lower than the national average rate of 9.6% So here we have a good view that the capitalist system of free markets and low taxes is leading to a good economy for Texas.
Now compare that to California. California has the 6th highest state income tax rate of 10.5%, behind New Jersey, which has the highest with a rate of 11.8%. California also has a budget of 464 billion annually. So how has this faired the Golden State? To begin with California has an unemployment rate of 12.4%, which is 2.8% higher than the national average. It also is suffering a 13.4 billion dollar deficit and an 8.6 billion dollar debt. California is on top of the list for states that has borrowed money form the Federal Government with 41 billion dollars. So despite the Keynesian argument that spending and borrowing can help the economy grow, California seems to be having a very hard time getting their economy going and has instead driven it into the ground.
So here are just some small examples of how capitalism seems to be a far more successful system than socialism. Less spending from a small government with no state income taxes has lead to one of the only budget surpluses in the nation, while big spending and taxing has lead to one of the nations highest unemployment rates and a spiraling deficit. In other news Chief Executive Magazine ranked California the worst business climate in the nation, while ranking Texas the best.

Natan Harosh
Adam Smith

To deal with the recession we should increase the supply of money to the public, by decreasing taxes or printing more money. This will stimulate the economy and brake the cycle. Once the recession cycle is broken we should decrease the supply of money to avoid inflation.

Adam Smith (Chrissy Saul)

My name is Adam Smith, and I am here today to comment on the recent government bailouts of several banks and major automobile companies. I believe that this behavior disrupts the natural order of the economy. The way I see it is this: if businesses begin to fail, it is their responsibility to stay afloat. If they do go under, it is most likely due to their own mistakes or to superior competition. This is a normal and essential part of economics, a place where the government has no right to intervene. The best and most efficient companies will rise to the top, while the weaker ones will slowly be filtered out. Constantly stepping in to save a failing business only discourages competition and drive, in addition to being a waste of money.

Adam Smith (Hodan Saeed)

Hello fellow citizens, I am here today to talk about the state of the economy and if I approve the decisions that are being made. As founder of Capitalism, I believe that all private sectors should not receive any help from the government and they should learn to strive on their own. I think that the ones that succeed should continue what they are doing and continue to prosper, and I also believe that the ones that fail should fail for they have clearly not given as much effort as the ones who were prosperous. There are many things going on in the U.S that I would approve of, such as the recently passed healthcare bill, at least the part that requires states to set up exchanges to ensure retail competition for health insurance. I would also be a supporter of a Consumer Financial Protection Agency and crackdowns on giant financial institutions. Although the economy is atrocious at the moment, I believe that the economy will recover with the support of all government parties by agreeing to what is best for the majority of american citizens.

Charles Fourier (Alexander Grabanski. Somewhat of a caricature)

I support the TRTDHP (The Rent is Too Damn High Party) because these greedy Jews own apartments with ever-increasing rent, causing only misery for those who have been unfortunate enough to be in the lowest class in our capitalist-feudal system. It is time that we gained more support from higher classes. The stimulus package was a good recent example of this, and I am glad that we are sometimes choosing to make decisions in agreement with the ideals of socialism. However, this is only a limited stage, as the end goal is many socio-anarchist societies. It doesn't matter that every one tried thus far has failed. This was simply a result of the limited scope. We need Anarchy everywhere.

Rebecca Zeglovitch (Karl Marx)

The world today is not right. Something must be done. There are still so many poor and homeless people in the world, while the rich fritter their money away and live extravagantly. And don't even get me started on this president nonsense. All people are equal, they just need to realize it. No one should be "in charge" or be the leader. If all people were the same and shared everything, we would eliminate so many problems. Why would you put your faith in one person to make decisions for you, when you could make them for yourself? The people need to rise up and save themselves. That is the only way. The people must take back what is theirs, or else suffer under "leaders" forever.

The economic crisis is clearly a result of the things mentioned above. Once we get that sorted out, there will not be an economic crisis.

Adam Smith (Pa Chia)
I am here today to speak about my support for Wal-mart. Wal mart is good for America. The low prices for Wal-mart help people afford products that are out of reach, which may help improve their lives. Wal-mart offers jobs and also offers a variety of things to buy from, being a one-stop shop. It is also one of the largest companies in the world and “in 2010, it was the world’s largest public corporation by revenue according to the Forbes Global 2000 for that year” (Wiki). Wal-Mart is able to rise to the top because it is efficient and is following its own self-interests. Profit is distributed to owners who invest in business and wages are paid to workers employed by Wal-Mart.
Although Wal-mart is a great example of capitalism, I am upset that there are minimum wage laws and better working conditions because that could upset the free market system, lowering profits, and weakening the production of wealth in society. More companies need to be like Wal-mart.

Thomas Malthus (Sam Arsenault)

The population of today's world is growing larger and larger by the second. This world is becoming so large that we are outgrowing some of the largest cities, just because of lack of control. By creating vaccines and other life saving devices (thought by some to be a great gift) that natural control is gone. The weak are not taken away, they are just put back on the bottom or falsely put at the top. We cannot change what has already happened, but we can change what is to happen. By taking away the vaccine the population would decrease by huge amounts. if you don't want to do that you could cap the amount of children to be had by a family. This method is already put in place by current China.

Thomas Malthus (Sam Arsenault)

The population of today's world is growing larger and larger by the second. This world is becoming so large that we are outgrowing some of the largest cities, just because of lack of control. By creating vaccines and other life saving devices (thought by some to be a great gift) that natural control is gone. The weak are not taken away, they are just put back on the bottom or falsely put at the top. We cannot change what has already happened, but we can change what is to happen. By taking away the vaccine the population would decrease by huge amounts. if you don't want to do that you could cap the amount of children to be had by a family. This method is already put in place by current China.

Adam Smith (Rebecca W)
In the modern, American educational system, any true sense of competition or capitalism has vanished. Such a flawed system could potentially let anyone get an education. This is a flawed system that is leaning more and more towards socialism. In an ideal educational system, one would have to earn the privilege of an education, letting the weak fall away and the strong emerge and earn their education.

Hello! I am Adam Smith (Liza Amaral) and I think that the economy now-a-days is the result of over processing. Although people need a lot, there is absolutely no way for the world to use so many unneeded processed things. The world should only be processing the lowest possible amounts so that they just meet the demand of the buyers.

Thomas Malthus (Alyssa Hokanson)

Hi, I'm Thomas Malthus and India is way too populated. As the population increases, resources decrease for everyone. The population is increasing faster than the food supply. So without any wars and epidemics, we are left with a bunch of extra people. Which causes most people to end up poor and sad. To prevent this there should be a law of how many children you can have. Or start a war...

WWED by Economist Adam Smith

I have heard there was a need for mass production and distribution of goods during the Civil War. This sped up industrialization and created industrial expansion of massive proportions. This type of economy leads to economic well-being. Someone earning money by his own labor benefits himself and he unknowingly also benefits society. Wage rates are higher for difficult tasks to learn (like a doctor) and also for dirty and unsafe tasks (like coal mining). The rest of the workers make a standard rate. If there is a surplus of goods, trade can be opened up to new markets.

Rachael Kozen (Adam Smith)

Hey there, I’m Adam Smith and I’m here to say that the economic crisis in the United States right now would be fixed if you all had read my book, The Wealth of Nations. Obviously economic liberty is the way to go, and the government should probably back off so progress can be made. My three ‘natural laws’ of economics certainly is being ignored this day and age. People should work for their own good, and enough goods should be produced at the lowest possible price to meet demand in a market economy. The only law that is really being followed is the one about competition forcing people to make better products. As you can see this law, being abided by, has helped prosper our financial system. So just putting that out there…

WWKMD-Caroline Amendola Bye

My name is Karl Marx, and I am here to comment on the modern U.S. economy. As I predicted, capitalism has destroyed itself. Countless craftsmen and women have been driven out of business by enormous companies. The balance of wealth in this country is out of control, just as it was as a result of the Industrial Revolution. The rich are getting
richer and the poor are getting poorer. If the U.S. accepted communism as its economic system, there would be economic equality for all. Everyone would receive the goods they need, poverty would be wiped out, and private property would be owned by the people. The ultimate communist ideal is a classless society. This country needs equality of wealth and work, and that would happen if the economy was adapted to suit communism.

I Karl Marx believe that there needs to be a change to the U.S. use of money. The countless things that money was wasted on like studying World of Warcraft, figuring out what people like on the internet, and studying the behaviors of male prostitutes in Vietnam, when we could have expanded our knowledge in social sciences. Instead of wasting time and money on things the U.S. wouldn’t really benefit from, the study of social sciences could not only unite the U.S. much more but we could eventually make money from it.

If you want to 17 other things the U.S. wastes its money on go to
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/government-waste-20-of-the-craziest-things-that-the-u-s-government-is-spending-money-on

I Karl Marx believe that there needs to be a change to the U.S. use of money. The countless things that money was wasted on like studying World of Warcraft, figuring out what people like on the internet, and studying the behaviors of male prostitutes in Vietnam, when we could have expanded our knowledge in social sciences. Instead of wasting time and money on things the U.S. wouldn’t really benefit from, the study of social sciences could not only unite the U.S. much more but we could eventually make money from it.

If you want to 17 other things the U.S. wastes its money on go to
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/government-waste-20-of-the-craziest-things-that-the-u-s-government-is-spending-money-on


Dear Minnesota,
I have been notified that recently the unemployment rate is at 6.4 % for Minnesotans. This is inexcusable and in order to fix this situation and make the percentage go down, then we need to switch this government from capitalism to communism. Communism creates complete equality, this will make everyone happier and get along well. Everyone will be paid the same no matter what job the unemployed people get. Clearly the movement toward communism is the way to go because everyone is equal and it will help create a better economy. This choice is the best choice for Minnesota and I believe that it should take action now.

Sincerely,

Karl Marx

Hi I am Adam Smith and I am pretty mad about this new idea of "ObamaCare." I believe that people should have to work for their own good. If people want healthcare they have to earn it by working for it. The government shouldn't help the people who can't help themselves. And what will happen to the competition between insurance companies? Once everyone has healthcare run by the government their would be no need for insurance companies to give special rates to people who deserve the special rates. Instead everyone will have the same rate.

Hi I am Adam Smith and I am pretty mad about this new idea of "ObamaCare." I believe that people should have to work for their own good. If people want healthcare they have to earn it by working for it. The government shouldn't help the people who can't help themselves. And what will happen to the competition between insurance companies? Once everyone has healthcare run by the government their would be no need for insurance companies to give special rates to people who deserve the special rates. Instead everyone will have the same rate.

I see today's world and there are so many issues present. People do not have freedom here. Public health care, public schools based off government, the socialism direction that this country is headed in to just irritates me. The people no longer have to worry about providing for themselves, they have others to do that for them. If people continue to live like this, the economic market will decrease significantly. The people need to become independent and realize that we need to redefine our country with a foundation of hard work and freedom.
-Adam Smith

I, Adam Smith have mixed views about America’s politics. While I appreciate the use of Capitalism I think that the American people have changed it so much that it is no longer as effective as it used to be. The purpose of capitalism is for people to be encouraged to work on the possibility of making their own fortune. While America certainly started off as a true capitalist nation it has slowly transformed into a mix between light socialism and capitalism. In my opinion healthcare and insurance should be earned by people and not a luxury of the state. America’s economy is certainly in much better shape than others’ but I still think that it could be improved dramatically if people had more of a motive to work.

Dear Modern Day America,

I look at the state in which this country is in and frankly I am disappointed. Freedom is restricted and taken away from citizens. The country seems to be heading in the direction of socialism; if our founding fathers were here today they would be disgusted and horrified after seeing the sad state in which we reside. This “ObamaCare” that seems to be so popular is a disturbing concept in which you give up your rights to choose your health care, and place your life in the hands of a morally corrupt government. Another thing that I find absolutely horrifying is the upcoming SOPA act, which gives the government control over the Internet, allowing them to remove websites and posts. I am disappointed in you, and I am sickened by the way America has been formed. To me, this isn’t the “Home of the Free” anymore.

Regrettably,
Adam Smith

Dear Journal,

As I go about my time in India, I am quite afraid for their future. Their population is far too massive, and is still growing. If they don’t do something about it soon, their resources and country’s finance will plummet greatly. By having such a massive population they need much more food, and supplies to go about daily life. Their own environment is not suitable enough to provide these things, because there are so many people already. They must import food, and supplies to sustain people’s living. Being an expert British economist there are only two options to control this disaster to come… decrease births, or increase deaths. Without epidemics or wars a population will keep increasing and increasing without hesitation. A step India could take is ridding its societies of vaccines and allowing nature and fate to take its course with whatever a person’s ending is. By doing so, India's weak will die and their healthy will be able to live, and prosper. Eventually they won't have to import so many goods, because the environment will be suitable enough for the smaller population. The ratio import to export won't be as bad either.

Sincerely,

Thomas Malthus

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About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Mike Vergin published on December 13, 2011 12:00 PM.

Q2 - Lesson #25 - Economics for Sophomores was the previous entry in this blog.

Q2 - Lesson #27 - 1889 Paris World Exposition is the next entry in this blog.

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